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Tankie12

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Reply with quote  #16 
How are you doing? I’ve been thinking about you and wondering as well about your feisty chi chi’s 😁 Your guys will be fine, try not to worry. I know it’s easy for me to say but the procedure is minimally invasive. Bigger deal for a female. After care will be the pain, for you as well. Keep that cone on them unless you are watching their every move. Let me know how it goes❣️
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Lynn, Tankie’s mom, forever
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Humanswithpaws

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Reply with quote  #17 
Hi lovely I’m so nervous felt like this when Noah and Izzy were done there just so small it scares me. Could really do with some training advise though because I really need to put a stop to there behaviour.
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Tankie12

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Reply with quote  #18 
Totally understand Mommy, that’s what we do, worry❣️ I’m gonna grab someone else to come on board about training. I think she’s more qualified for scrapping advise,,,,,
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Humanswithpaws

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Reply with quote  #19 
Well things ended up more complicated than I thought turns out Jasper only had one ball which I didn’t even realise until last night. So the price has double and the poor little man has had to have more intense surgery. I pick them both up in 2 hours which will be a relief I broke down in the vets
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Millie18

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Reply with quote  #20 
Hi Gema, I'm coming a bit late to the conversation but wanted to chime in.

There's been a lot of great information mentioned already. Unfortunately there won't be a magic pill to make the issues go away. Neutering both of them will help, but they've already established certain behaviors that most likely only behavior modification will correct.

My Millie was a very dog aggressive female and a major marker and leg lifter.  That's why I ended up as her emergency foster. It's not something that can be eliminated completely unless the desire for establishing territory is changed.

As Lynn already brought up, now with Noah gone the 2 boys are trying to establish the new pecking order. In this case YOU must be the new alpha, otherwise they will decide for you and you will have ongoing headaches. As much as I dislike Cesar Milan (he nearly starved my dog to death) establishing yourself as the pack leader will create more order. The problem with it is that YOU MUST BE CONSISTENT otherwise it all falls apart and goes back to chaos. 

Lots of obedience rules. They have to work for EVERYTHING: Sitting and waiting for food, sounds gross, but spitting in their food (reinforces your dominance), they need to stay in their place (bed, blanket, etc.) when told, no one is allowed on the couch or your bed (at least initially, later only when invited)...with chi chi's I know this will be very very hard, but you need to make it clear to them that they aren't the ones to make decisions - YOU ARE. I did it with my rotti and boy if I slipped she took advantage immediately.

You will also need to separate them when you aren't there to avoid escalation. Don't wait until they start drawing blood.

Are they crate trained? Their anxiety threshold is very high right now. Lots of exercise would be crucial now too to take off that edge. You need to continually get that energy down. Slipping and allowing them to go at each other destroys all of the work you will have done and raises the threshold again and puts you back at square one.

I was able to lower Millie's aggression threshold and marking over a period of a year, then a stupid neighbor had her dogs off leash and they attacked Mill. No physical harm was done, but we were set back behaviorally 6 months. She was on high alert again for a while.

And everyone in the family must follow the same rules. If you can be consistent with lots of exercise and following the house rules, you will be rewarded 10 fold.

I know it's a lot to take in, very overwhelming, especially after having just lost your other baby, but living in a tense household where you are on edge most of the time will only feed their frustration even more.

Sending you strength and peace. 

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Diana

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Tankie12

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Reply with quote  #21 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Millie18
Hi Gema, I'm coming a bit late to the conversation but wanted to chime in.

There's been a lot of great information mentioned already. Unfortunately there won't be a magic pill to make the issues go away. Neutering both of them will help, but they've already established certain behaviors that most likely only behavior modification will correct.

My Millie was a very dog aggressive female and a major marker and leg lifter.  That's why I ended up as her emergency foster. It's not something that can be eliminated completely unless the desire for establishing territory is changed.

As Lynn already brought up, now with Noah gone the 2 boys are trying to establish the new pecking order. In this case YOU must be the new alpha, otherwise they will decide for you and you will have ongoing headaches. As much as I dislike Cesar Milan (he nearly starved my dog to death) establishing yourself as the pack leader will create more order. The problem with it is that YOU MUST BE CONSISTENT otherwise it all falls apart and goes back to chaos. 

Lots of obedience rules. They have to work for EVERYTHING: Sitting and waiting for food, sounds gross, but spitting in their food (reinforces your dominance), they need to stay in their place (bed, blanket, etc.) when told, no one is allowed on the couch or your bed (at least initially, later only when invited)...with chi chi's I know this will be very very hard, but you need to make it clear to them that they aren't the ones to make decisions - YOU ARE. I did it with my rotti and boy if I slipped she took advantage immediately.

You will also need to separate them when you aren't there to avoid escalation. Don't wait until they start drawing blood.

Are they crate trained? Their anxiety threshold is very high right now. Lots of exercise would be crucial now too to take off that edge. You need to continually get that energy down. Slipping and allowing them to go at each other destroys all of the work you will have done and raises the threshold again and puts you back at square one.

I was able to lower Millie's aggression threshold and marking over a period of a year, then a stupid neighbor had her dogs off leash and they attacked Mill. No physical harm was done, but we were set back behaviorally 6 months. She was on high alert again for a while.

And everyone in the family must follow the same rules. If you can be consistent with lots of exercise and following the house rules, you will be rewarded 10 fold.

I know it's a lot to take in, very overwhelming, especially after having just lost your other baby, but living in a tense household where you are on edge most of the time will only feed their frustration even more.

Sending you strength and peace. 


My hero! Yes all of the things I’d forgotten after my girls were already older and had no doubt I was the pack leader. It’s easy to forget because you have no issues one the order is established. Much appreciated Diana

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Millie18

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Reply with quote  #22 
Lynn,
You had already taken care of the physical issues. I just filled in the blanks on the behavioral end <3

It was 2 vs 2 with my dogs-the boys were super easy, the girls were the challenging ones ; ) Then being seniors the 3 were too tired to try to fight. 

Chi chi's are like four legged Napoleons = always ready to prove themselves. I honestly find them to be more difficult compared to the big dogs.

Millie was more of a challenge compared to the rottie, because she was smaller and very, very fast. I had to always be thinking and moving 3 steps ahead of her, but it made a 95% change. It was very rewarding. It's also what made letting go of her doubly hard. After all of that hard work I finally had the perfect dog : (

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Diana

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Humanswithpaws

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Reply with quote  #23 
Thank you so much for this adviceit’s really appreciated it I’ve never had to deal with this before. How was you say is the best way to discipline.

unfortunatly exercise will be off the cards for the next two weeks as they have both been castrated today.

They are crate trained they sleep in there crate together when I go to bed and when I go to work until my dog sitter arrives.

They pee up everything worse thing is I never catch them doing it
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Tankie12

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Reply with quote  #24 
Gema separate crates may ease some of their anxiety towards each other. They need their space, even if they never fought and adored each other I’d say give them their own private space☺️
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Millie18

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Reply with quote  #25 
I wholeheartedly agree with Lynn. Let's separate them 1st. All that marking is probably in defiance to being locked up together at night and having to reestablish their boundaries every day.

There are so many things that can help with discipline, but I'm not sure where to start.

In your case I would recommend either watching his DVD's or reading Cesar Millan's books to gain a better idea of the pack mentality. Here are a few links to start and an article regarding dog on dog aggression.

If you are able to I would recommend a good trainer who could help start you off. The hardest part is for us humans to change our ways and be trained. The dogs just automatically fall into place once we do the right thing. Good luck to you.

Dog on dog aggression

With dog on dog aggression, your dogs are asking you to step up as the pack leader. Animals select pack leaders because they instinctually know who is strong and who can best lead them. An animal pack leader is concerned for the pack, not for himself. His natural instincts are protection and direction for the entire pack. It’s an unselfish role and an instinctual role. And in return, the pack completely trusts the pack leader. You need to earn your dogs’ trust, loyalty, and respect before the dogs will look to you as their leader and you do this by giving them rules, boundaries, and limitations.

Once your dogs see you as their pack leader, the dog on dog aggression will stop as they stop fighting for dominance because you will be their calm-assertive pack leader.

https://www.amazon.com/Be-Pack-Leader-Cesars-Transform/dp/0307381676/ref=pd_bxgy_3?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=0307381676&pd_rd_r=0dafe46a-a583-11e8-ae64-cf526c9df6cb&pd_rd_w=ZoqYf&pd_rd_wg=pRvGX&pf_rd_i=desktop-dp-sims&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_p=7ca3846a-7fcf-4568-9727-1bc2d7b4d5e0&pf_rd_r=W45HEGHEQA81NCD8TRK5&pf_rd_s=desktop-dp-sims&pf_rd_t=40701&psc=1&refRID=W45HEGHEQA81NCD8TRK5

https://www.amazon.com/Dog-Whisperer-Cesar-Millan-Aggression/dp/B01M749Q9L

https://www.cesarsway.com/dog-psychology/five-techniques/rules-boundaries-limitations/establish-rules-boundaries-limitations

 


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Diana

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Humanswithpaws

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Reply with quote  #26 
Thank you so much for all of your help xxx
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